path: root/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt

[21:59:58] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Gentoo meetings | KDE Team meeting | topics: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222007/"
[22:00:43] -*- ABCD is here
[22:00:45] <scarabeus> lets get slowly started
[22:00:51] <scarabeus> so step 0: roll call
[22:00:51] -*- dilfridge is here
[22:00:52] -*- wired suprizingly here
[22:00:52] <scarabeus> who is around
[22:01:02] --> krytzz (~quassel@quassel/user/krytzz) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:01:17] <scarabeus> thats all?
[22:01:22] <wired> lol
[22:01:34] --> deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:01:37] -*- ABCD is here (again, because I said it before roll call started)
[22:01:38] <deathwing00> w00t?
[22:01:50] <dilfridge> wot?
[22:01:52] <deathwing00> ok, before anyone brings up any topic
[22:01:56] <deathwing00> let me say just one thing
[22:02:39] <deathwing00> my commit access will be disabled starting this month June 2010 and will be re-enabled July 2011, as I will be doing an MBA that will take most of my time away, besides I was promoted to team leader in Flumotion and that adds me even more workload
[22:02:48] <deathwing00> said that, good luck guys :)
[22:02:58] <scarabeus> deathwing00: cheers, and happy birthday :]
[22:03:01] <wired> you really think you won't have time for 1 commit? hehe
[22:03:15] <dilfridge> good luck to you too :)
[22:03:35] --> mschiff (~mschiff@d000042.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:03:37] <deathwing00> :)
[22:03:38] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[22:03:38] <deathwing00> thanks
[22:03:38] <willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, tampakrap, tgurr, wired
[22:03:43] <scarabeus> wake up rest of you
[22:03:47] <scarabeus> there is more than 10 people
[22:04:16] <deathwing00> scarabeus: laters then :)
[22:04:24] <deathwing00> I'll still be around in jabber ;)
[22:04:25] <dilfridge> hmm... time for small talk...
[22:04:27] <-- deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:04:47] <scarabeus> ok, lets get started, and i will kick their asses later
[22:05:02] <scarabeus> so 4.4 and its stabilisation
[22:05:08] <bonsaikitten> rrrrrrringdingding!
[22:05:12] <scarabeus> the bug is not moving anyhow promisingly
[22:05:36] <dilfridge> many things are there since 4.3.x times
[22:06:10] <scarabeus> yes the main quesiton is
[22:06:16] <scarabeus> how about we put 4.4.4 to main tree
[22:06:21] <scarabeus> and ask for stabilisation in 1 week
[22:06:25] <scarabeus> no matter what is left
[22:06:43] <ABCD> sounds fine to me - 4.4.4 should just be bugfixes on 4.4.3, right? :D
[22:06:46] <scarabeus> but basic thing i would like to say is that i would like to see designated team that would handle the stables
[22:06:49] <dilfridge> probably not better nor worse than 4.4.3
[22:06:52] <scarabeus> they will run the stable
[22:07:05] <scarabeus> and will be responsible for proactively stabling and pestering us all for fixing stable bugs
[22:07:12] -*- dilfridge hears some coconuts in the background
[22:07:48] <dilfridge> well who else besides me runs 4.4.[34] here still?
[22:08:15] <scarabeus> i have 4.4.3
[22:08:16] <jmbsvicetto> sorry, got distracted
[22:08:16] <scarabeus> :]
[22:08:18] -*- ABCD doesn't because his hard drive broke
[22:08:28] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: by accident you dont run stable huh? ;}
[22:09:40] <jmbsvicetto> I runn 4.4.4
[22:09:46] <dilfridge> also good
[22:09:48] <scarabeus> So any other ideas how to handle this situation?
[22:09:51] <jmbsvicetto> run*
[22:10:09] <dilfridge> well the only other alternative would be to stable 4.4.3
[22:10:10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: about the 1 week we must be ready for arch teams to tell us they'll wait the usual month
[22:10:31] <scarabeus> nah, they wont get to that bug before the month will come anyway
[22:10:37] <jmbsvicetto> in any case, I think the most important issue is the deps. Are we sure all 4.4.4 deps are marked stable?
[22:10:50] <scarabeus> expect amd64 and x86 which mostly will do what we ask them
[22:10:52] <ABCD> did the deps change from 4.4.3?
[22:11:17] <scarabeus> dependecies were not changed
[22:11:22] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: 4.4.3 isn't stable, right? iirc, the latest stable is 4.3.5
[22:11:29] <dilfridge> yes
[22:11:34] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: and no, I don't run stable
[22:11:55] <jmbsvicetto> also, what about kdepim? Will that only affect 4.5?
[22:11:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i think our problem is that we all rock on ~ or even further
[22:12:01] -*- dilfridge has a fully stable x86 chroot rotting somewhere
[22:12:10] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: kdepim is affected only 4.5 and it is next topic :]
[22:12:20] <ABCD> jmbsvicetto: it isn't, but if its deps were stable, then there shouldn't be much of an issue
[22:12:21] <scarabeus> dilfridge: sadly you are not dev yet whom can fill those requests :]
[22:12:30] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: that's to be expected
[22:12:35] <jmbsvicetto> (us running ~)
[22:12:41] <scarabeus> yes
[22:12:49] <scarabeus> but then we would expect archies to fill stablerequests
[22:12:56] <scarabeus> we have tons of various packages just in ~
[22:13:00] <dilfridge> but anyway ~ is better than ~+pmasked
[22:13:03] <scarabeus> because nobody ever bothered to fill the bugs
[22:13:15] <jmbsvicetto> it's up to us to ask for packages to be marked stable, but it's up to arch teams to take care of it
[22:13:31] <dilfridge> (and to wait for 30days...)
[22:13:36] <scarabeus> yes, and who else would have better motivation to ask for stables than people running it
[22:13:40] <jmbsvicetto> I'm planning to add a request for amarok soon
[22:13:56] <jmbsvicetto> but I need to check the status of the deps
[22:14:16] <jmbsvicetto> I'll probably go for 2.3.0.90 or 2.3.1 directly and then drop all the older versions
[22:14:50] <scarabeus> sounds sane :]
[22:14:56] <jmbsvicetto> I'm also likely to merge amarok and amarok-utils as I don't see any interest on amarok-utils
[22:15:10] <scarabeus> so i guess my plan with arch team wont work since we dont have anyone interested in it :P
[22:15:21] <scarabeus> so only question left is which version 4.4.3 or 4.4.4
[22:15:31] <scarabeus> devs plz pick :]
[22:15:35] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: sounds also sane :]
[22:15:39] <jmbsvicetto> well, most of us already have the blessing to do the work for amd64
[22:16:05] <ABCD> I'd say 4.4.4 if we can convince the archies to do it in 7 days instead of 30
[22:16:06] <jmbsvicetto> at this point, we can probably target 4.4.4
[22:16:16] <scarabeus> ok
[22:16:28] <scarabeus> 3 out of 5 attending devs
[22:16:32] <scarabeus> added to summary
[22:16:37] <scarabeus> next topic then
[22:16:40] <scarabeus> kdepim 4.5
[22:16:45] <dilfridge> ugh
[22:16:49] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: past history has showed that it takes a bit more than 1 or 2 weeks since we plan to ask for a package to get marked stable and to the request get to the arch teams ;)
[22:17:12] <wired> i also vote for 4.4.4
[22:17:19] <wired> btw we can stable amd64 ourselves
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[22:17:28] <jmbsvicetto> besides, has anyone hit any regression from 4.4.3 to 4.4.4?
[22:17:28] <scarabeus> yes yes
[22:17:33] <dilfridge> no
[22:17:47] <dilfridge> one last thing before we move on to kdepim
[22:17:48] <jmbsvicetto> I haven't, but I didn't check the kdm user thing yet
[22:17:56] <Wizzleby> No regressions from 4.4.3->4.4.4 here
[22:18:14] <dilfridge> we will probably be drowned in akonadi problems when 4.4.x gets stable
[22:18:25] <scarabeus> dilfridge: aware of that :/
[22:18:29] <jmbsvicetto> hmm, I did restart kdm on my desktop and it's working, so I don't think that's an issue afterall
[22:18:41] <dilfridge> (i was always too lazy to file a bug, but on my 3 machines it never started working properly)
[22:18:57] -*- scarabeus does not even have kdepim installed
[22:19:00] <scarabeus> too big pile of...
[22:19:06] <scarabeus> anyway
[22:19:10] <scarabeus> we have 3 options at our hands
[22:19:12] <dilfridge> I like(d) it...
[22:19:15] <jmbsvicetto> dilfridge: if you mean about kdepim, I don't have it installed locally :P
[22:19:22] <scarabeus> ship kdepim from trunk with 4.5 releases, our tarballs
[22:19:30] <scarabeus> make 4.5 work with 4.4 kdepim
[22:19:36] <scarabeus> or finaly package enterprise branch
[22:19:48] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Perhaps we should start by making 2 questions:
[22:19:59] <jmbsvicetto> 1. Which devs care or want to "mess" with kdepim
[22:20:06] <krytzz> second is probably the easiest, as all distros wil do that right?
[22:20:32] <scarabeus> krytzz: second is indeed easiest
[22:20:39] <jmbsvicetto> 2. and depending on that we can just start a vote on the forums/mls/* explaining the issue to the users and getting a "vote" on how to proceed
[22:20:42] <dilfridge> jmbsvicetto: alexxy was interested but sadly is not here
[22:20:55] <scarabeus> i am definitely not interested in kdepim
[22:20:59] <scarabeus> if that part of kde disappeared
[22:21:01] <scarabeus> i would be happy man
[22:21:10] <scarabeus> among with semantic-desktop team
[22:21:11] <scarabeus> :D
[22:21:21] <jmbsvicetto> I don't plan to touch kdepim too
[22:21:23] -*- dilfridge would probably skip that release then as he need kdepim
[22:21:42] <scarabeus> dilfridge: pst, we switched to claws and thunderbird, they works
[22:21:49] <dilfridge> hehe
[22:22:01] <jmbsvicetto> I've always used FF and TB, so no change for me ;)
[22:22:11] <scarabeus> ok so seems noone is interested in this topic
[22:22:18] <scarabeus> so lets postrpone it, i will sent mail to alias
[22:22:23] <scarabeus> and i will pray that someone reply
[22:22:24] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what about my proposal?
[22:22:27] <krytzz> what about reavertm, he did some work with pim :p
[22:22:37] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: the forums are good idea, but first we need to pass step 1
[22:22:43] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we could set a plan like the following:
[22:23:09] <jmbsvicetto> 1. give developers one week to express what they feel about kdepim and to see if anyone volunteers to work on it
[22:23:43] <jmbsvicetto> 2. if that fails or we can't find anyone willing to do it, make a public announcement about the issue, explain it and give a few options to users:
[22:24:11] <jmbsvicetto> 2.1 have interested parties show up and work in the overlay to get it done - (what can be given as option to the community)
[22:24:18] <scarabeus> ok
[22:24:25] <jmbsvicetto> 2.2 have users vote for us to just ignore kdepim until it gets working
[22:24:26] <krytzz> will 4.5 be released one month afterwards? in that case you could postpone the whole 4.5 release for 1 month?
[22:24:26] <ABCD> from what I heard, kdepim may show back up in 4.5.1 or 4.5.2
[22:24:28] <scarabeus> that sounds like nice sumup
[22:24:37] <jmbsvicetto> 2.3 give the above 3 options for someone to work on
[22:25:23] <scarabeus> ABCD: with shitload of bugs
[22:25:40] <ABCD> that's beside the point :D
[22:25:41] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: added your approach to summary, since it sounds like only sane :]
[22:25:45] <dilfridge> that's what 4.5.3456 will be for
[22:26:02] <scarabeus> koffice-2.2
[22:26:09] <scarabeus> dilfridge: i saw you working on it :]
[22:26:18] <dilfridge> yes and it works afaik
[22:26:21] <jmbsvicetto> That's another thing I don't plan to work on
[22:26:24] <scarabeus> so wanna be designated maintainer?
[22:26:38] <dilfridge> puh... I'm not actively using it so bad choice...
[22:26:53] <dilfridge> (whenever I tried ooo did the job better)
[22:27:13] <dilfridge> but I can look after it a bit yes
[22:27:33] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we could perhaps use this chance to ask for volunteers to work on koffice and kdepim
[22:27:50] <jmbsvicetto> (not that I expect a horde to show up)
[22:28:19] <scarabeus> well we need 2.2.0 in main tree stabilised asap
[22:28:26] <scarabeus> because 2.1 is seriously useless
[22:28:29] <dilfridge> I'd rather volunteer for some kdepim stuff than koffice...
[22:28:49] <scarabeus> :DDD
[22:28:55] <-- brk (~brk@r9dq22.net.upc.cz) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:28:57] <jmbsvicetto> dilfridge: s/and/and or/
[22:29:00] <scarabeus> lets try same approach as for kdepim then
[22:29:27] <scarabeus> NEEEXT :D
[22:29:44] <scarabeus> so dagger sent me mail
[22:30:01] <scarabeus> if we would accept pulse patches
[22:30:01] <scarabeus> that makes it work in kmix
[22:30:02] <scarabeus> for now on we have policy that we dont backport patches
[22:30:41] <scarabeus> so lets vote about wheter to accept patches or be strictly what upstream sends
[22:30:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: since when? we always tried to follow upstream as closely as possible, but if someone is willing to apply a back-port and to keep it working, why not?
[22:31:03] -*- alexxy here =)
[22:31:07] <scarabeus> just write upstream/distro-patches based on what you want (only devs)
[22:31:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: acutaly we declined quite few backports
[22:31:39] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: for konsole in example
[22:31:42] <jmbsvicetto> as long as we don't want to do it and there's no one in the team willing to do it, it's ok by me
[22:31:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: iirc, ssuominem applied that patch again
[22:32:27] <jmbsvicetto> I don't follow commits closely, but by reading the bugzilla mail, I think a few have been applied
[22:33:12] <scarabeus> so lets keep status "if you keep it backported and polished you can have it..."?
[22:33:17] <wired> backports++ from me if they fix stuff ;)
[22:33:32] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: together with the old "you break it, you fix it" ;)
[22:33:43] <wired> jmbsvicetto thats a must :P
[22:34:05] <scarabeus> ok added to summary
[22:34:13] <scarabeus> now the topic that is quite important
[22:34:23] <jmbsvicetto> oh and about pulseaudio, I no longer care!! /me is using phonon-vlc :)
[22:34:37] <wired> lol
[22:34:42] <scarabeus> so inactive people in team
[22:34:45] <scarabeus> what the f**k is everyone doing
[22:34:51] <scarabeus> there is 17 people in the team
[22:34:54] -*- jmbsvicetto goes hidding in the back
[22:34:55] <scarabeus> ...
[22:34:56] <scarabeus> :D
[22:35:14] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I guess the other 16 guys are very active :P
[22:35:14] <scarabeus> on this meeting we have star attendance of 5 developers
[22:35:24] <scarabeus> very very active
[22:35:24] <wired> well
[22:35:40] <alexxy> he he =)
[22:35:50] <wired> scarabeus: you're to blame for this instance
[22:35:58] <wired> you chose FRIDAY EVENING
[22:36:05] <wired> failday for meeting :p
[22:36:09] <scarabeus> i dont mind attendance for meeting
[22:36:11] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: talking for myself, I took a lot of work when things were stalled, then you guys all started doing so much, I got used not needing to do too much ;)
[22:36:16] <alexxy> its beerday 
[22:36:16] <alexxy> =)
[22:36:24] <scarabeus> but there is almost no activity on tree or ovelray by team members in kde area
[22:36:29] <krytzz> right... only people without friends are online now
[22:36:38] <scarabeus> not counting few active ones
[22:36:45] <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: thanks :P
[22:36:48] <scarabeus> so since joining team is really simple
[22:36:50] <wired> \o/
[22:37:10] <scarabeus> i would like to ask all those who are not really into working at least bit on kde remove themselves from herd
[22:37:17] <scarabeus> they are mostly active in other areas of gentoo
[22:37:31] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Now you know how fun it is to have the pointy hat ;)
[22:37:36] <scarabeus> and it would at least show me list of people i can count in
[22:37:56] <wired> scarabeus: thats not going to work, most of them aren't even here :P
[22:38:11] <scarabeus> and i will forceremove everyone who dont have at least 1 commint in last 2 months
[22:38:17] <scarabeus> wired: it will be on summary
[22:38:36] <scarabeus> they can join in back and be active
[22:38:51] <scarabeus> or just commit here and there with our permission as other nonteam devs do now
[22:39:14] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: that counts you too ;]
[22:39:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok, let me be clear about my commitment: I plan to do amarok as long as no one takes it out of me, I'm interested in phonon-vlc for the moment, I also have an interest on kdenetwork. I try to look at bugs and I get interested on stuff sent to packagers. I do however have a few other areas where there aren't active people on, so they sometimes take priority
[22:39:40] <-- ABCD (~abcd@gentoo/developer/abcd) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:40:03] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you do commits in packages that have herd kde
[22:40:19] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: there are people that didnt do any commit in those 2 named months back any of that
[22:40:21] <bonsaikitten> scarabeus: yeah, that's fine with me
[22:40:23] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, but I know I don't do many commits
[22:40:26] <scarabeus> (i did some research)
[22:40:33] -*- alexxy plays with beta/rc/snaphsots stuff
[22:40:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: but you do something :]
[22:40:34] <bonsaikitten> I'm mostly honorific member ;)
[22:40:51] <wired> the last thing i did was fix koffice 2.1.81
[22:40:51] <wired> ;p
[22:40:55] <scarabeus> there is thin line between something and nothing
[22:41:27] -*- jmbsvicetto gives a swift kick in bonsaikitten's honorific *slacker* member :P
[22:42:04] <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: you sound fat!
[22:42:08] <wired> you know I was looking at the slacker definition the other day and it said also known as bonsaikitten or patrick
[22:42:11] <wired> ;p
[22:42:12] <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: :P
[22:42:22] <jmbsvicetto> wired: hehe
[22:42:31] <alexxy> =)
[22:42:50] <scarabeus> ?D
[22:42:52] <scarabeus> ok
[22:42:58] <alexxy> =P
[22:42:59] <jmbsvicetto> wired: He has a bit to learn to catch some champs ;)
[22:43:00] <scarabeus> i guess that is all of mine topics
[22:43:03] <wired> omg
[22:43:04] <scarabeus> so
[22:43:08] <scarabeus> you have something to discuss
[22:43:19] <scarabeus> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222014/
[22:43:19] <jmbsvicetto> a 40 minutes meeting? O_O
[22:43:23] <scarabeus> also here is current summary
[22:43:25] <alexxy> my 50 cents about kdepim
[22:43:29] <scarabeus> i planned 10 minutes for each
[22:43:34] <scarabeus> we were faster
[22:43:52] <alexxy> i plan to package tarballs for 4.5.0
[22:43:54] <alexxy> =)
[22:44:14] <dilfridge> nice
[22:44:18] <scarabeus> alexxy: that is mostly too late :P now you will have to work with others over mail :
[22:44:19] <scarabeus> ]
[22:44:29] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: what are you planning to do with the cmake-utils eclass and was there any reason for the revert?
[22:45:52] <scarabeus> alexxy: also remember that people will want to kill you if you blow up their mail client :D
[22:46:03] <scarabeus> 1 thingie, anyone did log?
[22:46:06] <scarabeus> for the log...
[22:46:07] <scarabeus> :]
[22:46:12] <scarabeus> i have just summary
[22:46:14] <dilfridge> sure
[22:46:19] <alexxy> i have log
[22:46:21] <alexxy> =)
[22:46:45] <wired> so do i